Jason Flom’s brilliant and incisive wrongful convictions podcasts are now numbering in the high two hundreds. There isn’t lifetime enough to ever finish with these scandalous miscarriages of justice. Here’s one that’s near and dear to me.
https://lavaforgood.com/podcast/226-jason-flom-with-atif-rafay/
I like how the podcast starts out with Atif lying. They didn’t go to the 9:50 PM showing of The Lion King. They went to the 9:40 showing.
Also where is Sebastian Burns in all this? I only see Atif still claiming that they are innocent. He has been kept out of the public eye for a long, long time.
Ken, I’ll bet money that I’ll never see/hear a conversation between you and Sebastian Burns. Ever. I bet if you asked him his side of the story, it would be completely different now. Maybe even confessing.
Hi Tom,
It’s a big assumption that Atif was lying about the starting time of the film. I don’t know where you think such a lie (if it was a lie) would benefit him?
As to Sebastian, I have never conversed with him; you are correct about that. The reason is simple. Anyone who represents Atif or is on Atif’s visiting list is not allowed to converse with Sebastian. That is a prison rule, period.
You are convinced of their guilt…okay. I would ask if it’s based on assumptions like you’ve made here or hard evidence? As I’ve said before, if it’s hard evidence, please tell me what it is. I don’t represent Atif for my pleasure, but because I believe in his innocence and also believe in Sebastian’s.
Ken
Hi Ken, that’s interesting that you’re not allowed to meet/interact with Sebastian if you’re in contact with Atif. I would have thought since they were tried together you’d be able to. I understood that Sebastian has been having mental health problems because of what’s happened to him (completely understandable).
Rubin Carter, whose knowledge in this area was unequaled, used to say that logic and reason have no relevance in a prison, unless you see prison rules as a way to disorient, confuse and intimidate both prisoners and visitors. In Washington, the rule is hard and fast; truly, it makes little sense aside from furthering isolation and punishment.
While Sebastian has suffered serious consequences from imprisonment and isolation, I’ve been led to understand that he has, of late, become more sociable.
Thanks for your entries, Carla.
Ken – Is there any possible way for me to help or to get involved? I too strongly believe in their innocence and want nothing else than to see them get a fair trial.
Knowing Sebatian’s appeals had been exhausted and Atif’s weren’t far off, I’d really like to help in any way I can.
Without a law degree, I feel helpless, but please, no matter how big or small, let me know if there is anything I can do that would help.
At this stage of appeals, Courtney, there is nothing I can recommend. However, because I can’t recommend that you do something does not mean that you can’t do something. It’s just that you have to be the initiator. There is always something to do and people in this group have sometimes had to discover their own way of going about it. Thank you for asking and for your heartfelt offer,
Ken
That is not an assumption, that is a fact. The start time for the Lion King that night was 9:40 PM.
And a 10 minute difference would make a huge difference. You know why? Because Atif’s families home was less than 10 minutes from the Factoria Cinema. It actually should take about 8 minutes to get to and from each location. These are all facts. It would benefit Atif greatly to lie since the window of when the neighbors heard Atif’s family getting slaughtered is such a narrow time frame. One neighbor reported hearing “hollow hitting type sounds” around 9:50 PM.
You remember the 90s and how practically every clock was set manually. Therefore there is some room for error in telling the exact time. So these murders happening between somewhere around 9:50, give or take 10 mins, it is entirely possible Atif and Sebastian could have driven back to the house in only 8 mins after the 9:40 PM start time.
And if that was a prison rule, that would seem like the easiest rule to get around, don’t you think? Have someone else talk to Sebastian. Have them interview him. See his side of the story now. I have seen plenty of documentaries where a murder involves two people and they interview both of them separately.
Everyone is hiding Sebastian and I think you know that. And I think you’re hiding from Sebastian.
Tom, why? Why why why would they do it. There is NO MOTIVE. They were privileged kids with bright futures, it’s insane to think they would commit this heinous crime. It’s just a ridiculous assumption and there is no evidence for it. In fact lots of evidence they didn’t do it and that it was the Muslim extremist group that the undercover FBI agent wrote a report about and had infiltrated and even seen the murder weapon.
The ‘motive’, supplied by both of them when they were caught in the RCMP sting, was manufactured to satisfy the gangsters.
“Why did you do it?” “Well, we wanted to have money to make a movie.” If that constitutes a motive for a bludgeoning, a severe case of overkill, then the murder of the Rafays is almost unique. Dr. Rafay was laying out 30,000 dollars a year (in 1994) so that Atif could attend Cornell University. They never thought that anyone on the outside would believe they were guilty. Well, they were wrong about that.
You haven’t studied this case well enough without prejudice. If you do, you will come to understand that there are actually MULTIPLE lines of evidence that show these two are innocent. Way back 50 years ago in debates – I was taught to understand both sides of the debate so well that I could argue either side competently. IMO you should do this – ithe info is quite readily accessible – BUT you must study.it rigorously, and without prejudice.